Author Topic: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL  (Read 3792 times)

ミス・ブルー

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2017, 11:46:11 pm »
Whats the use of full+12 oc ruined or 95 honor, if the user is noob.. Js :)

srsly.. 4 parts oc + 95 dress is the best build. :)

i already tried both set + combination..

Besides ... macro oc rm proc will down them both I suppose
 :o  ???

A RM won't down a full +12 OC Ruin/95 cored if they are the only DPS on the CL.


LanaD3lRey

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2017, 12:07:31 pm »
Agreed ^ RMs tickle and can't really down me by themselves, even with macro. If you're good, then you shouldn't die to a single dps as a cleric in +12. Also, I haven't quite tested this but here's my response to the question raised in this post:

It's too expensive for me to run, and I haven't quite tested this BUT...
Full +12 Resolute gives more hp/damage reduction/nation dmg reduction than Ruin OC. Although Ruin offers more crit resist and Con (the source of my tankiness: over 600 con with Soup), Resolute offers more raw damage reduction and counters macro RMs severely with the massive amount of nation dmg reduction it offers.

The closest example I can think of for you is TooCuteToDie. She's almost full +11 Resolute and is just as tanky as me in Full +12 Ruin OC. Think about if she were +12. I'd like to see that happen in order for me to put this to the test.

These are just the raw facts, take them as you will. However, I do believe Resolute +12 is tankier because of its higher base stats in dmg reduction/hp when reinforcing.

I'd also like to add that if you were to run Resolute, it would have to be Full +12 or close to it in order to achieve optimal tackiness that would be greater than Ruin OC. You would lose some crit resist, but gain a lot more damage reduction.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 12:11:27 pm by LanaD3lRey »

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Eternia

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2017, 05:09:01 pm »
Having fought TC and ruin cls, i can tell you TC is no where near as tanky as a ruin cl.
PS. I dont care if the topici is XeagorV2 since you're the one who took the time to start a tread about him,not even xeagor does that lol guess ur more likely the real Xeagor V2.
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LanaD3lRey

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 05:18:37 pm »
Is that in regards to how long she keeps herself alive or the damage that you can do to her? With her resolute, she has a lot less crit resist because she's not running full Crit Resist 12's on her armor, and she also loses some crit resist because she's not running Ruin OC. However, the damage should be about the same outside of landing more critical attacks on her. I'd like to see someone with full +12 Resolute and complete enchants to really make a solid comparison. Like I said, TC was the closest example I could think of.

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Eternia

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2017, 07:14:23 pm »
In regards to the damage. Crit rate is too high atm especially for RM and DGs, crit resist is priority for any tank build especially cl since they take way more damage per hit then a pally or wr would. Resolute is op on pally since the shield makes up for alot of the crit resist difference from Ruin, at that point the bonus pvp defense and other stats come in to play. Few crits on cl can null most if not all of the pvp defence or bonus crit damage reduction u may have on resolute cl. Cls should be full Ruin OC or 4 piece with 95 body simply because RM and DGs will crit a resolute way more often. The only chance of Resolute being tankier is if you didnt get crit on by RM/DGs/WRs, Resolute can prevent crits from pallies if ur max crit resist build, but RM and DGs will still crit you, and some WRs will too. If both sets didn't get crit on, then Resolute would be tankier for sure, I've already done the math on that :D If the crit rate/crit resist balance shifts favoring crit resist, then Resolute will be the ideal tank set for all classes.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 07:24:42 pm by Eternia »
PS. I dont care if the topici is XeagorV2 since you're the one who took the time to start a tread about him,not even xeagor does that lol guess ur more likely the real Xeagor V2.
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Vampa

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2017, 08:26:02 pm »
i have  killed u both   and  TC is not bad  cl but   not  tanky, she also  uses  honor  acc that  lower the  crit resist  even more, kill a  oc  ruin cl  is  harder to  kill a  resolute  cl.

LanaD3lRey

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 09:25:30 pm »
In regards to the damage. Crit rate is too high atm especially for RM and DGs, crit resist is priority for any tank build especially cl since they take way more damage per hit then a pally or wr would. Resolute is op on pally since the shield makes up for alot of the crit resist difference from Ruin, at that point the bonus pvp defense and other stats come in to play. Few crits on cl can null most if not all of the pvp defence or bonus crit damage reduction u may have on resolute cl. Cls should be full Ruin OC or 4 piece with 95 body simply because RM and DGs will crit a resolute way more often. The only chance of Resolute being tankier is if you didnt get crit on by RM/DGs/WRs, Resolute can prevent crits from pallies if ur max crit resist build, but RM and DGs will still crit you, and some WRs will too. If both sets didn't get crit on, then Resolute would be tankier for sure, I've already done the math on that :D If the crit rate/crit resist balance shifts favoring crit resist, then Resolute will be the ideal tank set for all classes.

The point at which Crit Rate has gotten in the game is absurd. Therefore, I think Resolute is better due to it's raw damage reduction. Even with full Crit Resist build, with OVER 190 Crit Resist, I still get crit on by RMs/DGs in Ruin OC (not as much as someone in Resolute, but it still happens). This is why I'm advocating for Resolute because you're going to get crit on either way with DGs and RMs having over 200 crit rate nowadays. The raw damage reduction/nation damage reduction could at least serve as a cushion for these crits coming from RMs/DGs. Idk, just my thoughts. I'd still really like to test this with a Resolute CL.

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LanaD3lRey

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2017, 09:30:08 pm »
i have  killed u both   and  TC is not bad  cl but   not  tanky, she also  uses  honor  acc that  lower the  crit resist  even more, kill a  oc  ruin cl  is  harder to  kill a  resolute  cl.

Considering you, like other WRs, just perma cc until you finally kill me or TC isn't really noteworthy - it just means you know how to play your class properly.

Incorrect, she's running Crit Resist Accessories partly because of me suggesting it for her. However, she did USED to run 95h Acc.

Also, I would like to test this with a Resolute CL full +12 but there just doesn't seem to be any. The closest I could think of was TC. If you know of any who I'm unaware of, then please bring their name up so I can contact them and actually put these words to the test.

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Vampa

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2017, 09:31:42 pm »
In regards to the damage. Crit rate is too high atm especially for RM and DGs, crit resist is priority for any tank build especially cl since they take way more damage per hit then a pally or wr would. Resolute is op on pally since the shield makes up for alot of the crit resist difference from Ruin, at that point the bonus pvp defense and other stats come in to play. Few crits on cl can null most if not all of the pvp defence or bonus crit damage reduction u may have on resolute cl. Cls should be full Ruin OC or 4 piece with 95 body simply because RM and DGs will crit a resolute way more often. The only chance of Resolute being tankier is if you didnt get crit on by RM/DGs/WRs, Resolute can prevent crits from pallies if ur max crit resist build, but RM and DGs will still crit you, and some WRs will too. If both sets didn't get crit on, then Resolute would be tankier for sure, I've already done the math on that :D If the crit rate/crit resist balance shifts favoring crit resist, then Resolute will be the ideal tank set for all classes.

The point at which Crit Rate has gotten in the game is absurd. Therefore, I think Resolute is better due to it's raw damage reduction. Even with full Crit Resist build, with OVER 190 Crit Resist, I still get crit on by RMs/DGs in Ruin OC (not as much as someone in Resolute, but it still happens). This is why I'm advocating for Resolute because you're going to get crit on either way with DGs and RMs having over 200 crit rate nowadays. The raw damage reduction/nation damage reduction could at least serve as a cushion for these crits coming from RMs/DGs. Idk, just my thoughts. I'd still really like to test this with a Resolute CL.

idk about Cl  crit  resist  but i heard  from a  dg  that even with 255 ( crit  cap) wont  crit  on cl  that much, ofc this on  full  crit resist  cl.
i still wonder  what is the  gap  to be able  to crit.

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2017, 09:37:39 pm »
i have  killed u both   and  TC is not bad  cl but   not  tanky, she also  uses  honor  acc that  lower the  crit resist  even more, kill a  oc  ruin cl  is  harder to  kill a  resolute  cl.

Considering you, like other WRs, just perma cc until you finally kill me or TC isn't really noteworthy - it just means you know how to play your class properly.

Incorrect, she's running Crit Resist Accessories partly because of me suggesting it for her. However, she did USED to run 95h Acc.

Also, I would like to test this with a Resolute CL full +12 but there just doesn't seem to be any. The closest I could think of was TC. If you know of any who I'm unaware of, then please bring their name up so I can contact them and actually put these words to the test.

lol i didnt  say to  lets  say get  a  prize or   a star or something, i said  i had  pvp  both  and  is  harder to  kill u as  oc  ruin cl  bc i wont  crit  u but i can crit   tc more often if not  always, u r talking  more  about   pure  dmg without  crit , and maybe that is the case but have to considerate crit  too since   makes  much more  dmg,and  now  there is  stones  that  will  add more crit rate.
i dont think  there is  another cl with high  resolute plus, maybe  spankmeows but i dont  remember her plus.
the  way to test it  is  if  TC  +12 hers or  with a  gm that  can have  any set they want.

LanaD3lRey

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2017, 09:40:41 pm »
I would also like to know this gap, perhaps Empress might know?

And yes, it's true that there have been DGs in the past with max Crit Rate who've had trouble critting a full Crit Resist CL, but they crit a lot more often. I've been crit on 3/10 on average by people with over 200 Crit Rate rather than my usual 1/10 I get with people under 200 Crit Rate. The point was that RMs and DGs have been critting on people a lot more nowadays. With new crit 6 xtals for Acc AND Stone without there being Crit Resist xtals to counter these, then Crit Rate will be a lot more absurd. This is why I'd recommend Resolute at this point in the game because of it's raw damage reduction, because crits are going to be a lot more frequent. The only thing we can do is to prepare for them, or ask GMs for Crit Resist xtals for Stone (which I've already done =p).

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Eternia

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2017, 01:37:48 am »
I can figure out the actual worth of 1 crit resist vs 1 crit rate after some extensive tests when I have time...but as it stands now just know that Crit rate minus Crit resistance doesnt = crit chance, you need more crit resistance then crit rate for it to be effective. There were too many crit rate bonuses recently from gear and new xtals as compared to crit resistance. The fact crit rate is so high is why u need Ruin O,O coz resolute will die to even paladins easily, i mean it will die to anyone way easier coz pretty much any dps build can crit resolute o,o....even on Pally I can tell you full ruin would be tankier, having used it as well. The extra criticals resolute will get hit by is guranteed to null the pvp defense and crit damage reduction bonuses from resolute easily. Resolute cls will get stun locked from heartbreaker easier, keep in mind the base 150% crit damage cannot be reduced, so each crit is guaranteed to do 150% more damage under any circumstance.

I will break it down a little: As it stands now, most people should easily have 300% crit damage, with resolute you get 40% crit damage reduction, resolute only needs 1 MS so lets say you went with 3 more crit damage reduction on it, so you get total of 70% from resolute vs the 46% from Ruin oc...lets say an RM hits you 4k non crit, with 300% crit rate it would crit you for 12k...with ruins crit reduction it will hit 10k...with resolutes 70% it will hit 9.2k...its only 800 less...so in this scenario, since Resolute is much more likely to crit on, if it takes one crit within 10 hits (Ruin: 4k hits x 10 = 40k vs Resolute: 4kx9 + 9.2k=45.2k)...so even getting crit on 1/10 nulifies the bonus crit damage reduction and takes more damage overall, this is the best case scenario for resolute since the difference in crit resistance can easily result in more crits then that on Resolute as compared to Ruin, but you get the point :D. If both get crit on 1/10 in that scenario, which is unlikely since Ruin has a lot more resistance, the difference is only 800 lol the risk/reward ratio for sacrificing crit resistance is too small. Keep in mind, Con is suppose to reduce crit damage as well so the difference will be even smaller. Basically once you factor in the PvP defence from Resolute, Resolute just buys you 1 free crit hit which u are bound to take, but as soon as you take the 2nd or 3rd crit, especially from a skill like BS ur fked lol This is 1v1 so consider the pvp scenario when you are being ff'd...each and every person on you has a better chance of criting you, DG's will destroy Resolute far quicker then they would a Ruin. With Ruin you only have to worry about the max dps builds when you are ff'd, but with Resolute getting ff'd by numbers no matter what gear can be overwhelming. Once you look at the damage bit, you have to consider that DG can CC Resolute easier then Ruin, more crits make heartbreaker op. As I said before it ends up boiling down to crit resistance :D the difference for non Pallies is too high (Cls dont have the raw defense of pallies or the defensive skills either which make Resolute OP on pl). Ruin will always have more crit resistance then Resolute so this will only change if crit resist balance shifts to where the bonus crit resist from Ruin is not needed then Resolute's PVP defense will out tank Ruin. Right now you need all the crit resistance you can get if you're a cl lol. Lastly, just as a heads up, don't use a Pally Ruin vs Resolute as a means to assume Cl Resolute is tanky enough because PL always have higher resistance then any class due to having a 5th armor piece we can attach crit resist to, on top of that honor shield have crit resistance on them anyways, be careful with that comparison :D

PS: Sarael has used both a full Ruin OC and full Resolute at a very similar + and she prefered the Ruin.
PPS: Gms prolly wont add crit resistance to stones since its treated exactly like an acc and has the same exact enchants and rules...but one can hope!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 01:46:04 am by Eternia »
PS. I dont care if the topici is XeagorV2 since you're the one who took the time to start a tread about him,not even xeagor does that lol guess ur more likely the real Xeagor V2.
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Vampa

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2017, 02:15:43 am »
pl shield  crit resist 10 + crit resist   12  enchant  is  24 but  rm  can have 30 crit  resist  more  without the  extra part, js.
i also doubt  that  there is  gona be crit resist  for stone.
In the  bright  side for  a  cl if  dg  with  255  dont  crit  u that much  right  now , then  everything   should  be  fine and  dgs  cant  get more than that, probably rm  is  the next  on the list  but  will be  same,wont  crit u  that  often and  cl  can  still  get  crit  resist   stone, at  high level will be  op.

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2017, 05:13:13 pm »
If you have 155 crit resist as a 95 CL a DG with 255 crits 100% on you. If you have 195 crit resist as a Ruin CL a DG with 255 crit will land 60% of their attacks as crits. Pick your poison.


LanaD3lRey

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Re: OC Ruin vs Resolute 95h - CL
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2017, 06:03:17 pm »
I do agree with all the points made, thank you everyone for your input.

I can't tell you how much I stress the importance of Critical Resistance to my fellow CLs in Osty. It is one of the sources of my tankiness, next to my 600+ Constitution stat. I originally stated that I think Resolute might be more tanky, but I'd really like to test this first. Hopefully I can test this in the near future with TC. As it stands right now, Critical Rate has been increasing exponentially while the rate at which one can counter this with Crit Resist has been stagnant. To be safe, I would just go Ruin. However, if I do manage to test this out then I'll share my results on this thread.

The sacrifice of losing 11 Critical Resistance is way too devastating in this current cap, just go Ruin OC.

I'll get back to you with my results. (=

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